Sexuality Part 2

[RGL_UK]

This thread carries on from TC's on sexuality, found here >

(http://www.ps3trophies.co.uk/showthread.php?p=112241#post112241).

I was wonder what are peoples opinions on:

What makes somebody pick the orientation they do?

Isit down to nature and our genetic make up or does it have something to do with the way we are nurtured from birth?


I would like to remind everyone to look at the forum rules before posting, as any post's i do not think are appropriate will be reported to a admin.

[ardjoe]

Well environment can shape sexuality. In an all boys school there will be more homosexuals than a state school right in the middle of 5 council estates.

[theColster123]

I think we pick the orientation we choose from our childhood.

The way we're treat as a child can have consequences on our mind as we're older. And I believe this may have an affect on the orientation we choose.

[James!]

LOL, last night on BBC radio 1's 'the surgery' they where talking about puberty and this was the reason as hormones are flying around all the time and this changes how your body thinks

[RGL_UK]

So two people so far says sexuality is down to nurture rather than nature and one person is saying its down to nature.

But what about Richard Dawkins idea of us solely being products of our parents, this would mean that the orientation of the child has been determined at fertilisation when the parents gamete's (sperm and egg) meet.

What do people think of that?

[ardjoe]

It is wrong, if the dad/mom was gay, they wouldn't have been able to have sex in the first place.

In my earlier post I didn't mean it is soley down to nuture, just more down to it than nature.

[steedster]

I think it's a mixture of both situation(ie Ardjoe's boy's school example) and from nature.

Because if you were taught by your parents to be gay much like getting taught manners, wouldn't you be gay?

[WeLsh_bEn]

I think its more to do with liking their personality.

I'm sure this is an expression that explains that, you fall in love with there personality no matter what gender they are.

And its really don't to the individual, its fine is your a lesbian or gay. I think society should accept that and stop being so nasty to people who dont love the opposite gender.

[RGL_UK]

It is wrong, if the dad/mom was gay, they wouldn't have been able to have sex in the first place.

(I do not mean to cause offense by this next post as it is not based on my personal views.)

Richard Dawkins would class homosexuality as a sort of genetic disease passed on by recessive genes from two Heterozygous parents (someone possessing two different forms of a particular gene)

For example:

Imagine that As stands for the gene stating that you will be Bi/homosexual and Ah stands for you being Heterosexual.

Ah and As are known as alleles.

Each person has two alleles.

So that means to be;
Bi/homosexual, you need the code As As.
Heterosexual, you need either the code's Ah As or Ah Ah.

Now imagine two parents, Both with the codes Ah As.
Both parent's have to pass on one out of the two codes, so each parent must pass on either a Ah or a As
If these two people created a child then the child has a chance of becoming bi/homosexual (reason show below)

http://i424.photobucket.com/albums/pp328/RGL_UK/Picture1.jpg

http://i424.photobucket.com/albums/pp328/RGL_UK/Picture2.jpg

http://i424.photobucket.com/albums/pp328/RGL_UK/Picture3.jpg


because the child could get the code As As it means he could be (in Dawkins eyes) Bi/Homosexual.
(Child has 33.3% chance of being Bi/Homosexual)

If anyone doesnt understand the post but wants to, or just fancies knowing some more just ask :).

Also sorry about picture sizes :(.

[James!]

^^^ Nerd ^^^

[PandaPanic!]

Well i think it is a combination of Sex Appeal, Good Looks, Good Personality, and overall Good everything ... they all come in to play in one situation or another and some people might say looks don't matter but the true fact is they do because they are what turn you on and interest you to begin with.

[RGL_UK]

^^^ Nerd ^^^

Correction: SexyNerd

[James!]

Correction: SexyNerd

Yes, although im straight i quite agree...Ross is sexy aint he ;):yes:

[RGL_UK]

Yes, although im straight i quite agree...Ross is sexy aint he ;):yes:

Thank you mini :D.
But lets get back on topic, we can discuss how sexy i am later :).

[WeLsh_bEn]

I dont think its to do with passed on genes.

Is just down to who you are. I mean Gay & Lesbian couples obviously cant reproduce so how can this gene be really passed on..

[RGL_UK]

I dont think its to do with passed on genes.

Is just down to who you are. I mean Gay & Lesbian couples obviously cant reproduce so how can this gene be really passed on..

Look at page one .. I explained in a rather long post.

[PandaPanic!]

Ross is right it is the same way illnesses such as Cystic Fibrosis are developed it is all gene inherited although i don't think this makes you gay / bi because many people go from being straight to gay / bi so that would mean it is not inherited otherwise they would be gay / bi to begin with and vice versa

[Laika]

Well environment can shape sexuality. In an all boys school there will be more homosexuals than a state school right in the middle of 5 council estates.

Not necessarily true, I've been to an all-male grammar school for five whole years, this being the sixth, and in the sixth year (being year 12), more homosexuals/'closet cases' came from other schools than had previously existed. I don't think the company you keep, after the age of 12, really affects your sexuality per se, most of these things are determined before the age of five, if A-level Sociology is to prove me right. Or, we could take a more Freudian approach and propose that we all want to have sex with our mothers as they are, in our eyes, our 'ideal woman'.

[RGL_UK]

(I hope i do not cause offense with the following post, they are not my views)

Well then everybody what about the concept that Men become Bi/Homosexual because they enjoy the sexual act whereas Women become Bi/Homosexual due to mistrust of men and wanting a more trusting relationship so they turn to Women?




Freudian approach and propose that we all want to have sex with our mothers as they are, in our eyes, our 'ideal woman'.

The Oedipus theory :).
Although i thought it said girls want their fathers and boys want their mothers.
He also says women are jealous of men because they wish they had a penis.
Maybe that could be a factor towards some lesbian couples having one women as a more masculine figure?

[PandaPanic!]

(I hope i do not cause offense with the following post, they are not my views)

Well then everybody what about the concept that Men become Bi/Homosexual because they enjoy the sexual act whereas Women become Bi/Homosexual due to mistrust of men and wanting a more trusting relationship so they turn to Women?

LOL Women can be just as bad as men if not worse :P As for men changing if they stay straight or not because they enjoy the sexual act i can't comment on that because personally i ain't done anything like that. But it is a possibility although one thing i notice is guys usually act themselves around guys. and girls act themselves around girls because if you did some of the things you would do in front of a guy in front of the opposite sex they would most likely be put off you where as the person who is the same sex as you would probably find it funny.

[RGL_UK]

Yes i agree, women can be just as bad.
It seems that 13/14 year olds are having sexual contact now adays, i blame the increase in peer pressure due to advertising etc.

I get what you are saying though about feeling more comfortable around members of the same sex, but could that be down to having grown up with people of the same sex.
Like 10 year old boy's finding girl's "yucky" and so perfering to play with other boys.
Maybe that has lead us to be more comfortable with boys because of our upbringing.

[PandaPanic!]

Maybe but at the same time if you spent time with a girl and got to know them i am sure you would act just as normal as you would around a guy because i guess you are used to them and they are used to you sort of thing. And yeah i think it is pointless doing things at that sort of age because they are still young.

[Cerberus64]

Two points I would like to make:


What makes somebody pick the orientation they do?

Gay men and women don't 'pick' their sexual orientation. I'm sure no-one on this site decided one day that they were going to be straight and no gay man or woman decides one day that they will be gay. They may, one day, decide to accept their orientation but there was no deliberate decision making process to be that orientation.


Ross is right it is the same way illnesses such as Cystic Fibrosis are developed it is all gene inherited although i don't think this makes you gay / bi because many people go from being straight to gay / bi so that would mean it is not inherited otherwise they would be gay / bi to begin with and vice versa

It's interesting that when people talk of homosexuality and genetics they always associate it with negative aspects of genetics - bad genes or defective genes. There is no evidence to say that the genes that code for homosexuality are good or bad, functional or defective - they are simply genes. This negative association only tends to reinforce the negaive attitudes towards gay men and women. Why would your first thoughts jump to Cyctic Fibrosis rather than say the genes for red hair or freckles?

[MXA1]

Maybe but at the same time if you spent time with a girl and got to know them i am sure you would act just as normal as you would around a guy because i guess you are used to them and they are used to you sort of thing. And yeah i think it is pointless doing things at that sort of age because they are still young.

Yee, one of my best mates is a girl and I act just the same around her as I do any of my guy mates w00t. I don't see the point of acting differently around any gender 'coz it's like... not the real you xD


What makes somebody pick the orientation they do?

I agree with Cerberus64. I don't think anyone 'chooses' their orientation as such, it's just how you see things.

For example, one of my mates mates is also a gay guy. And i always wondered how he could just know he was gay, but he said he just looks at guys at the same way i look at girls and that he thinks they're ugly xD.

He also says he wished he wasn't gay, which i can't understand how he knows he's gay, but wants to be straight.
Because i'm straight, but if i didn't want to be straigt i'm sure i'd just go for guys :S But i'm happy being straight thanks xD

Well, maybe it's just because it's very hard in todays society to admit your gay and be happy, without people taking the piss.

&+ RGL_UK i see where your coming from about the genes idea. The gene which 'makes' you gay / bi could be recessive, and so you'd need two of them to be gay / bi. Which is why your parents may not be gay, but could still give birth to a child who is gay; as they could be carriers of the gay / bi gene.

Well, anyways, there's my two cents =]

[blake_]

i thinks childhood shaps your life

[Cerberus64]

There is no doubt that childhood experiences shape your future personality but I question the assertion that they also affect your sexual orientation.

The evidence for a genetic origin for your sexual orientation is now almost overwhelming and so suggesting that childhood experiences change your sexual orientation is no different than suggesting your childhood experiences could change the colour of your eyes or the shape of your ears.

Genetic analysis has found genes that pre-dispose individuals to becoming homosexual and physical differences between the brains of gay and straight men have been discovered.

There is also a statistically higher likelihood of you being gay if you have an older brother. Now you could argue that this points to your upbringing with an older brother but the effect remains even if the younger brother is adopted as a single child which would indicate that their homosexuality was conferred in the womb. The mechanism for this has yet to be discovered but it is thought that foetal cells from the first male in the womb somehow alter the womb environment and affect subsequent males (there is no effect from having older sisters).

[Laika]

Yes i agree, women can be just as bad.
It seems that 13/14 year olds are having sexual contact now adays, i blame the increase in peer pressure due to advertising etc.

I get what you are saying though about feeling more comfortable around members of the same sex, but could that be down to having grown up with people of the same sex.
Like 10 year old boy's finding girl's "yucky" and so perfering to play with other boys.
Maybe that has lead us to be more comfortable with boys because of our upbringing.

I blame the media/the parents on this early exposure, with specific note to this current ongoing idiot squabble about this 13 year old dad. The worst thing was that in the paper I read it in, 'The People', they weren't so much as glorifying the early pregnancy (Oh, the 15 year old girl who did get preggers, didn't know who the father was, could've been one of around four other 13-15 year olds), but it wasn't exactly calling it out as a bad thing either, I'd be prepared to argue it was leaning the other way. 13? Fuck me, pardon the pun, I don't think I could even spell 'sex' in those days, and that was only four bloody years ago. I don't even think it's an 'out of sight, out of mind' problem anymore, I was talking to someone I'd met here in Egypt, they knew a girl who'd had a child at THIRTEEN and a SECOND at FIFTEEN. Anybody who doesn't know the risks of sex without a condom nowadays is most likely to either have been a life-long hermit, or an unborn fetus.

[Nirvlime]

A lot of people just give up trying to get with the opposite sex. So they turn 'gay'

ie: fat girls in high school.

But that's not real gay. It's just trying to fit in.

[RGL_UK]

A lot of people just give up trying to get with the opposite sex. So they turn 'gay'

ie: fat girls in high school.

But that's not real gay. It's just trying to fit in.

Ok lets make that alittle nicer.
So people can turn gay due to social pressures.
Is what you mean :)!

Yea fair enough.
Anyone got any opinions on this?

[PandaPanic!]

Two points I would like to make:



Gay men and women don't 'pick' their sexual orientation. I'm sure no-one on this site decided one day that they were going to be straight and no gay man or woman decides one day that they will be gay. They may, one day, decide to accept their orientation but there was no deliberate decision making process to be that orientation.



It's interesting that when people talk of homosexuality and genetics they always associate it with negative aspects of genetics - bad genes or defective genes. There is no evidence to say that the genes that code for homosexuality are good or bad, functional or defective - they are simply genes. This negative association only tends to reinforce the negaive attitudes towards gay men and women. Why would your first thoughts jump to Cyctic Fibrosis rather than say the genes for red hair or freckles?

It was just the first thing that came to mind and was purely coincidental :) all genes good or bad play a part in life.

[Nirvlime]

Ok lets make that alittle nicer.
So people can turn gay due to social pressures.
Is what you mean :)!

Yea fair enough.
Anyone got any opinions on this?

Ha, sure. But without my example most people would be like "What the hell? Who would turn gay because of social pressures?" I mean, it's kind of opposite of the traditional idea. But it really does happen.

[Anneiliator666]

It was just the first thing that came to mind and was purely coincidental :) all genes good or bad play a part in life.

Did you even read what he posted?
The genes aren'tbad, he didn't that even though they're bad you should accept it.

[iMatty-]

Ha, sure. But without my example most people would be like "What the hell? Who would turn gay because of social pressures?" I mean, it's kind of opposite of the traditional idea. But it really does happen.

Well I'm PART bi, I would kiss a guy sure, why not but like I would actually have a relationship with a guy. I personally think it's because i've grown up hugging my friends and all that so in my views, I guess it's more acceptable.

So in my opinion it might be genes, or it might be the enviroment you grow up in. Could be a bit of both. =]

[ugabugaz]

I like girls, and girls only :)
But then again when it comes to friends i like guys(Heterosexuals only).