Gold prices vs USD

[Residentzombie]

Well it's been a few months since I last posted due to a narcistic administrator booted me for posting about the New World Order and short term plan for a global government. Those of you who spent time researching the topic, good for you to listen to the evidence and seriously gave it some thought. I did get a few messages from you guys supporting getting the topic out there although you were critical of a few viewpoints I had which is good since this is a discussion forum.

Understanding the financial trouble and double edge sword America faced back in February of this year, I transfered 80% of my personal savings into gold. Currently that transfer has gone up 30% when priced in USD. I was wondering if you guys at all understand why this happened and guess we'll make this a macro economic discussion regarding the potential future of the green back and gold's role in the future.

I prefer to have Americans to discuss this topic unless you follow economics and the USD or gold/currency prices/exchange rates.

[amplifiedAnt]

In times of recession, the price of gold increases. Simple.

It's not quite that the fall of the dollar causes gold to appreciate, but gold's price is an indicating factor of a failing economy. As the government pumps more money into the economy, it weakens the dollar and causes inflation.

The anomaly of the value of gold almost seems to make it independent from economic systems, if you catch my drift. It's all good if you already have gold, but if you want to buy it around now you're going to be paying such a premium that it could be worth significantly less in say, a decade or so. It'll take some very good judgment to know when to sell up for the best return.

[Residentzombie]

Well then I ask you what is the definition of inflation? Inflation is caused by an increase in money supply and/or credit. Incase you haven't noticed the US has had 700 billion Dollars printed and added it to the economy. When you have more money in circulation, that causes that currency to loss value since it has been devalued. Therefore you need more worthless fiat Dollars to purchase the same item than you needed before.

In times of recession, prices fall. The fact that prices didn't fall like they should have proves that there is massive inflation already in the system and this is what the Federal Reserve had wanted to have happen. The only way to reverse this trend is to drastically increase interest rates, but this will cause all the banks that were recently bailed out to go bankrupt and most others as well. Translation is the Fed will continue to keep interest rates artifically low and continue to print money or shall I say follow quantitative easing practices.

You are mostly correct, but wrong on the failing currency causing gold to appreciate. It's not that gold is becoming MORE valuable than it is now, it's that the Dollar is becoming LESS valuable; therefore you need more worthless Dollars to purchase the same amount of gold as you did before. Some may try to argue gold is in a 'bubble' and over invested in, but very few people even know the price of gold. If you are looking to retain PURCHASING POWER of your savings, you need to keep up with the amount of devaluation your currency is experiencing. The safest bet for this is to store your money in gold and silver since gold is real money and not paper which throughout history has all gone down to 0 value.

Also Ant who's to say the USD can't collapse to 0? Best thing for Americans is to insure their savings and get away from the US Dollar ASAP. Gold may initially fall with the next collapse, but gold is tradable for any paper currency. I believe you use Euros Ant? Americans are going to be in much drier states. Gold was the only thing that saved wealth for the people of Argentina, Weimar Germany, the former Soviet Union, the US Continental, and Zimbabwe. Yes America has the world reserve currency due to the Brenton Woods Agreement but that was while the USD was pegged to a gold standard. From the sound of things, SDRs issued through the IMF will be the replacement.

[vertigu9219]

Hey zombie good to see you back on the forum.
In the Uk there now seems to be more tv adverts for cash 4 gold and the likes than any other service. If what you stated above is correct, as I know it to be, then these companies are falsely advertising. "gold is at its highest level ever" they tell the gullible masses. I have been going out of my way to tell people to keep their gold. When they crash the markets for real the only thing worth anything will be precious metals.
The only part of this which surprises me is the time scale, i wasnt expecting them to rush on gold and silver for a few years. I guess the Obama factor has worked better than expected and the global community has become more compliant.

[Residentzombie]

Sadlly most Americans are clueless when it comes to the currency crisis that is on the horizon. Economics aren't taught in schools and the Keynes way of thinking is what most mainstream media reports to the masses. Cash 4 Gold and other advertisements is exactly the opposite of what Americans should be doing.

Obama just extended the First Time Homebuyers Tax Credit which is anyone who hasn't purchased a home within the last 3 years gets $8,000 or 10% off the price of the home. These loans are mostly issued by Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac and gauranteed by the American government, which just gave these banks billions of bailout money. U3 Unemployment is 17.5% and Americans are trying to save and repay their personal debt. Our economy is 70% consumption and we just had Cash 4 Clunkers. Everything Obama and Bernanke are doing is encouraging Americans to spend yet Obama tells the Chinese we are saving. What a joke. Records number of banks are failing and the FDIC is running out of cash. Money WILL continue to be printed and the Dollar will continue to lose value through inflation. Gold is a for sure bet for at least the next few years for Americans.

[fs86]

In the Uk there now seems to be more tv adverts for cash 4 gold and the likes than any other service. If what you stated above is correct, as I know it to be, then these companies are falsely advertising. "gold is at its highest level ever" they tell the gullible masses. I have been going out of my way to tell people to keep their gold. When they crash the markets for real the only thing worth anything will be precious metals.
.

Yeah they're not FALSELY advertising, they're doing what any company would do... make using them seem the most attractive option. They do say straight out about the rising price of gold, and saying that it is at its highest level ever is nothing like saying it won't keep going up (why would they want it if that was the case?).

And its a harsh view to tar everyone as "gullible", even if they DO sell their gold. These are, as everyone knows, hard times, and there are people who will have no option but to sell the odd bit of gold in order to pay for essentials, especially with unemployment levels the way they are...

[bringerofchaos]

im learnign economics here in the uk, our teacher spent some time on this matter, twas interesting, hmm wonder if i should take it for A levels

[Pure_Mind_Games]

we should just take a page out of the Star Trek Universe and just do away with money

[bringerofchaos]

do without money...? i haven't watched star trek but... without money? im going to think about that tonight, what a world we could live in without it, great concept but what takes currencies' place?

[vertigu9219]

Yeah they're not FALSELY advertising, they're doing what any company would do... make using them seem the most attractive option. They do say straight out about the rising price of gold, and saying that it is at its highest level ever is nothing like saying it won't keep going up (why would they want it if that was the case?).

And its a harsh view to tar everyone as "gullible", even if they DO sell their gold. These are, as everyone knows, hard times, and there are people who will have no option but to sell the odd bit of gold in order to pay for essentials, especially with unemployment levels the way they are...

It is false advertising because gold does not fluctuate in its worth. Simply put the value of paper money changes in relation to gold.
Secondly, harsh but true. People are gullible.

[Residentzombie]

Gold is real money, has been for over 5,000 years. Paper fiat currency is government funny money. vertigu is correct gold (for the most part) is price stability, when governments issue paper money that is what goes up and down. America's government thinks inflation is a good thing for crazy reasons, but price neutrality is best for it's citizens. Devaluing currency is just another form of taxation if you think about it.

Being able to print money at will has always been the downfall of all great governments in the past. Gold takes discipline since it must be excavated and for this one reason is why gold is perfect money: Work goes into mining gold and therefore it has labor used as it's median of exchange for another's labor.

If this subject interests you I urge to listen to Marc Faber, Jim Rodgers, Max Keiser, Ron Paul, Peter Schiff, and Robert Kiyosaki.

[fs86]

It is false advertising because gold does not fluctuate in its worth. Simply put the value of paper money changes in relation to gold.
Secondly, harsh but true. People are gullible.

It's not really false though, they're just explaining it in a way that's easier to understand. I get that it isn't the value of gold that's changing, it's the paper money that is. But saying that would probably confuse a lot of people. They are, however, only saying that the price of gold is high - meaning RELATIVE to paper money, which it is.

Secondly... if you continued to read my post... it's not that everyone is gullible, just uninformed, and like I said before, for some people eating is more of a concern than keeping money for a few years down the line. Yes putting all your money into gold is fine if you have the money to safeguard, but not if you're struggling.

YOU CAN'T EAT GOLD

[Residentzombie]

YOU CAN'T EAT GOLD

So sick of hearing that. Look for Americans this is the survival list: #1 6 months to 2 year dry food supply and water per person. #2 Gun and plenty of ammo to protect you, your food, and #3 Gold and silver bullion. If Americans had to barter you'd want: Booze, cigs, ammo, and silver. This is preparing for the worst, hope for the best. If the best still happens, gold and silver will protect your purchasing power while the USD loses at least 20% of it's value. It's a win either way. If you do take a strong position though, make sure you fully understand why you would do it. Fun fact: Gold has outperformed the S&P for the last 5 years in percentage gains.

Actually, when you measure gold against other currencies like the Euro and the Yen gold hasn't had as huge of gains when comparing it to the US Dollar.

[fs86]

So sick of hearing that. Look for Americans this is the survival list: #1 6 months to 2 year dry food supply and water per person. #2 Gun and plenty of ammo to protect you, your food, and #3 Gold and silver bullion. If Americans had to barter you'd want: Booze, cigs, ammo, and silver. This is preparing for the worst, hope for the best. If the best still happens, gold and silver will protect your purchasing power while the USD loses at least 20% of it's value. It's a win either way. If you do take a strong position though, make sure you fully understand why you would do it.

Yeah but what I mean is they still have to pay for food, and if I lived in poverty, I can be pretty sure I'd sell gold to have money to do that, rather than save it so that I can be richer when I die, because although the government has food for people, that doesn't mean I can live for free.

[Residentzombie]

You don't have to be rich to buy silver or gold, that is an excuse. Americans are spending less and saving more which is good; however, holding onto US Dollars strickly isn't a good idea with current events. As they say, 'Don't put all your eggs in one basket.' For those that are in poverty they will be left behind, but many churches help as well as some non-profit organizations like the Salvation Army. I can sympathize for those who lost their jobs and have no savings, unless those people never saved money while they were working. Debt is no excuse because it was that individuals choice to get into more debt than they could handle. Americans are pros at doing that, both it's citizens and it's government.

fs86 my God government does not produce any food, farmers do. If the currency defaults, the government is purely insolvent. The private sector is what allows the government to even exist. Governments steal wealth from it's citizens through taxation and inflation. This is why America's founders put the gold and silver coinage act in the Constitution. Read up about the American Continental fiat currency that people used in the 13 colonies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_(currency)

[Residentzombie]

So gold is at USD$1,223/oz as of now and some food for that about is gold in a 'bubble'?

In previous years gold mining and exploration companies suffered due to little demand and small budgets and production was relatively low. Now that gold is gain momentum and demand is increasing stock levels are low. The new way they are mining gold is by taking it from gullible people who don't see a currency crisis in the form of their old gold jewellery, computers, and other old electronic gadgets and refining that gold, silver, and copper. If this momentum continues and gold is continuing to fall in supply and demand remains, gold and silver will continuing to becomer harder to get, driving prices higher until gold makes it's correction in correlation to all the currency that was recently created. Eventualy the mining companies will kick supply in high gear with the high prices and gold will then again stabilize until the Federal Reserve does something destructive again. Mental blocks will take some time to overcome as speculators short their positions ($1,000 $1,500 $2,000 etc) Silver is a good buy as well; however, silver is tied strongly to the retail economy demand and as a precious metal. Silver is in shorter supply than gold to it's defense, and better for bartering with.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhPpzWZDyx0

I think gold is just starting it's bull run and it's more of a flee from the USD into something tangible and tried and true. Also most Americans are clueless about the price of gold, only the wealthy and educated are starting now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAaVK5AkZzI

A good way for struggling Americans and doesn't cost hardly any money is to save their 1981 and prior US pennies. They contain 90% copper and when it is valued in US Dollars for the metal content is 3 times more valuable. FYI it is illegal to melt them down with a blow torch in a crucable though. If the US currency collapses though all bets are off everyone will be melting away.

[Nagisa24]

so tell me about the nwo again........coz i have no idea whats happening here.

[Residentzombie]

It is a discussion regarding current events with the US Dollar and gold (money) and a potential hyper inflation to the USD. There are 2 closed threads discussing it entitld: New World Order

[Nagisa24]

I know. it was a joke. I know what this topic is about it's just most of the facts go straight over my head as economics bore me senseless. who cares what gold is worth or that money is shit. just get on with your life and don't fret about crap things because no matter how much money you have in the end you can't take it with you.

[Residentzombie]

I'm 28 years old and very concerned over the future of America since I live in it. Gold is still a global topic though since England and other countries are doing similar things that America is.

[vertigu9219]

I know. it was a joke. I know what this topic is about it's just most of the facts go straight over my head as economics bore me senseless. who cares what gold is worth or that money is shit. just get on with your life and don't fret about crap things because no matter how much money you have in the end you can't take it with you.

If you dont give a shit, why bother posting. Read the rules of the serious discussion section and engage your brain (if possible) before you post meaningless tripe.
So sick of idiots walking about with their heads up their rectums.

[Residentzombie]

So wow Bernanke is named TIME Person of the Year. The man who is cranking up the US printing presses and devaluing the currency is given a reward for his saving us from a Great Depression. Well I think Americans will find out in the next 2 to 3 years that Bernanke caused at best case stagflation and worse case a hyper-inflationary depression. It is comical to see how people are totally clueless to the negative effects of Bernanke's involvement in the economy.

It is almost as comical as war monger Obama receiving a Nobel Peace Prize and Tiger Woods being given the honor of Athlete of the Decade. Do these things not strike people as to say WTF to what the hell is going on? Or do people just buy the mainstream propoganda that is being brainwashed to them? Maybe next we should give Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe an economics award.

[Residentzombie]

So it's been almost a year since I last posted and gold is currently at a record $1,350 USD per ounce. The currency wars are just starting. Global hyper-inflation will be the end result. Hope you prepare for this prior to the effects taking hold. Food is important to stock pile as all commodities will sky rocket due to the massive devaluation of currency.

[fs86]

Hmmmm... sounds a bit like the beginning of the end... maybe I should just barricade my home and break out the apocalypse survival gear.