911.

[JayBox]

i got back from new york, about 2 weeks ago, best holiday ever.

and i went to ground zero, which was very moving, as nobody who hasnt been there can understand the sheer size of them. yes it was just a hole when i was there, but it was massive!

and i have been watching some videos on youtube all week. and its horrible.

and the thing that really gets me going, are not the bastards that did it, but the people who have the nerve to comment horrible things on the videos. saying how america deserved it! BULL SHIT. i would love to meet osama bin laden my self.

whats everyones opinion on the subject?

[ardjoe]

what's worse is the people that claimed they had died so they could claim benefits/evade taxes etc.

That day was a tragedy, one of the only subjects or topics that I would never ever make a sly joke or gag about.

[Alex]

I was only 6 when it happened so I didn't really know what was going on but I knew something bad had happened. It was a horrible event and people say that Bush did it to get publicity which I think is a complete lie. Bush isn't the nicest of people but I don't think he'd go that far.

Also I read somewhere that some guy in the past who could tell the future predicted that 'When the leader returns (Bush Jr) the towers would fall' or something like that

[gregtorius]

I agree that 911 was unjust, and needless loss of life.


what's worse is the people that claimed they had died so they could claim benefits/evade taxes etc.

I'm not with you.... the people in the towers? Who could possibly claim the victims deliberately brought this on themselves?

On another note, regarding conspiracy theories, you have to admit there's substantial evidence that points in the direction of foul play.



Also I read somewhere that some guy in the past who could tell the future predicted that 'When the leader returns (Bush Jr) the towers would fall' or something like that

Complete act of desperation, and attention seeking. I could just as easily say something as vague, and claim I fortold the future when something even mildly close happens. I despise these people, but alas that's just my opinion.

[WeLsh_bEn]

The whole people who did it and there followers should be shot.

Why cant they just find alkaida and all the fucking groups and kill them all.

Yes i may sound as bad as the people who did it but honestly for doing that and for the people who follow it they don't deserve to live.

[gregtorius]

The whole people who did it and there followers should be shot.

This I can agree with, as can everyone else.


Why cant they just find alkaida and all the fucking groups and kill them all.

This, I can't agree with ....
The lack of information linking terrorists to 911 is astounding.

[JayBox]

The whole people who did it and there followers should be shot.

i dont agree

thats too good for them, we should capture them, then make them suffer as they make thousands suffer and die. they made people make the impossible choice, burn to death, suffocate on smoke to death, or fall to their death.

therefore they should suffer, so if i hear people saying, "we shouldnt be in Afghanistan" then i will show them this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0Qu6eyyr4c&feature=related

[vertigu9219]

I dont know quite where to start with this. I will keep it short.
I have read and watched everything i can on the horrible attacks that took place in the US in 2001. I remain 100% MIHOP (made it happen on purpose).
The biggest lie the US government have told since the gulf of tonkin and pearl harbour before that.
The idea comes from Hitler ( George Bush's grandad laundered money for him btw ) strangely enough. In the 1930's the nazis set fire to the reichstad and blamed communists leading public opinion to usher in the darkest period in European history.
After 9/11 the germans were polled to see who they believed flew the planes, more than 50% said it was an inside job. Thats because they know their history.
The real conspiracy is not with the people who believe this but with the lies which we were/are being force fed.
We are living in a new world order where the new god is GOD.

Gold
Oil
Drugs

These are the real reasons for thousands of deaths.

[JayBox]

i dont agree, i dont think there is any conspiracy. al quieda are just annoyed with America thinking they rule everything, which is wrong, but george bush or anyone in the UK government are not to blame.

osama bin laden didnt take responsibility at first, but he has now taken responsibility.

[gregtorius]

therefore they should suffer, so if i hear people saying, "we shouldnt be in Afghanistan" then i will show them this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0Qu6eyyr4c&feature=related

I'm sorry, but that video doesn't justify the actions taken in Afghanistan. As much as I'd like to believe it was a terrorist attack led by Bin Laden, I can't deny the lack of proof.

Granted the people behind the attack should be held responsible, but until there's solid evidence to support the United States Governments' claims of who was behind it, I'll not be forced or led to believe when there are serious discrepencies in the information provided.


i dont agree, i dont think there is any conspiracy. al quieda are just annoyed with America thinking they rule everything, which is wrong, but george bush or anyone in the UK government are not to blame.

osama bin laden didnt take responsibility at first, but he has now taken responsibility.

It's very simple to give the information people want, when you have the control over what information is being released.

[vertigu9219]

i dont agree

thats too good for them, we should capture them, then make them suffer as they make thousands suffer and die. they made people make the impossible choice, burn to death, suffocate on smoke to death, or fall to their death.

therefore they should suffer, so if i hear people saying, "we shouldnt be in Afghanistan" then i will show them this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0Qu6eyyr4c&feature=related

Heroine prodution in Afghanistan has doubled since we invaded. This is why we are there. To protect the concerns of the CIA who control the farms and the skag. Which in turn controls the masses and makes the CIA a fortune.
This has been a long time in the making, about 30 years ago the US helped the Afghans defeat the USSR's invasion attempt. This was when the CIA recruited the Bin Ladens. We should not be there and no amount of propaganda will change those facts.

[JayBox]

yeah sure, thats your opinion, and thats fine, but al quieda have also attacked the uk, which they took responability for.

[vertigu9219]

Lol a couple of wanna be doctor terrorists drove a car into Glasgow airport???
Or are you talking about 7/7???
THE most half hearted attempt at a false flag opperation ever, on the morning of the attack on London radio 5live broadcasted an interview with a government spokesman (who's name escapes me right now) who had the brass neck to confirm that the emergency services were simulating almost exactly and to the minute what took place. Its a joke.
I respect your pov but really, really disagree with you. And I urge you and anyone else to go and find stuff out for yourself, do not let all those who have been killed on buses, trains, planes and on the battlefield die in vain.

[sameh_93]

I remember the day it happened and i watched on the news. Was really weird, i didnt know what to think at first.

[vertigu9219]

I remember the day it happened and i watched on the news. Was really weird, i didnt know what to think at first.

What do you think now?

[WeLsh_bEn]

You would think that they could find out who really did it.

Then kill them and all there families for what they did.

[gregtorius]

You would think that they could find out who really did it.

Then kill them and all there families for what they did.

That's the thing, what if they don't want anyone to find out who did it.... that my friend is much easier to do when you already know who's responsible.

[Guyers94]

Lol a couple of wanna be doctor terrorists drove a car into Glasgow airport???
Or are you talking about 7/7???
THE most half hearted attempt at a false flag opperation ever, on the morning of the attack on London radio 5live broadcasted an interview with a government spokesman (who's name escapes me right now) who had the brass neck to confirm that the emergency services were simulating almost exactly and to the minute what took place. Its a joke.
I respect your pov but really, really disagree with you. And I urge you and anyone else to go and find stuff out for yourself, do not let all those who have been killed on buses, trains, planes and on the battlefield die in vain.

I find it extremely hard to believe that a government official would say something like that on the radio and then no-one follow up on it. I agree there isn't much evidence to support terrorist attacks in 9/11 but much of the conspiracy theory is also opinions, coincidences and lies.

I don't think we will ever find out exactly what happened at 9/11 and who was behind it but you can't say there is any incontrevertible proof that it was a conspiracy.

Again this is just my opinion and I don't know what I believe particularly but I'm not going to make a judgment without knowing exactly what happened

[vertigu9219]

http://www.julyseventh.co.uk/july-7-terror-rehearsal.html#interviews

My apologies for the previous post where i claimed that it was a government spokesman who spoke on radio 5 on 7/7.
He was in fact the person responsible for the terror rehearsal. The above link includes audio and transcript.

[•••••••••••••]

I find it fucking pathetic that we - people who don't know anyone that was there or killed there - still give a shit. Bad things happen every day yet little westerners like you get scared and emotional as soon as someone does anything to them.

Don't get me wrong it's a terrible thing but get over it.

Wether it was a conspiracy or not, really doesn't matter. It's a tragedy that got way too much attention. Especially from Europe.

[WeLsh_bEn]

I find it fucking pathetic that we - people who don't know anyone that was there or killed there - still give a shit. Bad things happen every day yet little westerners like you get scared and emotional as soon as someone does anything to them.

Don't get me wrong it's a terrible thing but get over it.

Wether it was a conspiracy or not, really doesn't matter. It's a tragedy that got way too much attention. Especially from Europe.

Yeh of course its nothing. Many people died in such a tragic way.

Maybe us little westerners just care a big more than you big Americans.

[•••••••••••••]

I'm not American. By westerners i mean the US and Europe you idiot.

[Guyers94]

Bad things happen every day!!??? How can you even think that 9/11 was just another unfortunate thing. The amount of innocent people who lost their lives on that day deserve to be rembered not just forgotten about as a statistic. Are you suggesting that we shouldn't care about it just because we didn't know anyone there. For one thing some people do know people who were there and also, I was scared in the few months following 9/11 and still am a bit. I was in London the other week and looking up at Canary Wharf, the first thing I thought of was 9/11.

Something that has had that kind of effect on me and other people, I feel is worth remembering.

[WeLsh_bEn]

Mmmm, no good on places ;)

O well, but you still shouldn't be saying what you are. If you don't care that's fine. Just means your heartless and it doesn't matter if you didn't know anyone from there.

It still means something.

[RGL_UK]

I'm not American. By westerners i mean the US and Europe you idiot.



Mind if i ask where you are from?
Oh and please do not insult other members.
It will not end well for you.



doesn't matter if you didn't know anyone from there.

It still means something.

I agree.
Just because you might not live in the country or infact anywhere near it doesnt mean you shouldnt feel for the people involved.
It isn't a good trait to have.

[vertigu9219]

I find it fucking pathetic that we - people who don't know anyone that was there or killed there - still give a shit. Bad things happen every day yet little westerners like you get scared and emotional as soon as someone does anything to them.

Don't get me wrong it's a terrible thing but get over it.

Wether it was a conspiracy or not, really doesn't matter. It's a tragedy that got way too much attention. Especially from Europe.

You dont get it. It was a means to an end. It was'nt done just to kill some people in buildings. It was a way of focus public opinion towards an invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan and governments were able to hastily introduce new laws in order to control the populus.

[•••••••••••••]

Vertigu : That is if you believe in the 9/11 conspiracy.

Everyone else : I didn't say i don't care. I was merely pointing out how hypocritical it is to only care about stuff like this when it happens to your country.

I'm not allowed to call someone an idiot for thinking by Wales (i'm guessing) is further west then America?

What does it matter where i'm from? Totally irrelevant.

[Eggimann93]

Here we go with the conspiracys again. I live in Sweden so it didnt really affect me much although we heard of it. Still watch the south park episode about this its awesome.

[Zalitz1]

I believe it was one of Nostradamus' prophecies that they linked to this attack.
But they also linked another one of his doomsday prophecies to the hadron colider thing, so i wouldnt take that too seriously.
Anyway i dont think there was a conspiracy.

[Guyers94]

Vertigu : That is if you believe in the 9/11 conspiracy.

Everyone else : I didn't say i don't care. I was merely pointing out how hypocritical it is to only care about stuff like this when it happens to your country.

I'm not allowed to call someone an idiot for thinking by Wales (i'm guessing) is further west then America?

What does it matter where i'm from? Totally irrelevant.

Most people here live in the UK so it didn't happen to our country but I still care about what happened at 9/11 and feel for the families involved.

[Laika]

Dotty has a point, bear with me.

How many of you are familiar with the Rwandan Genocide? I assume it's not very many of you so I'll fill you in on the important details.

Over 100 days 800,000 to 1,000,000 people were killed. An estimated TWENTY PERCENT of the entire population. This was in 1994.

Do you know how many people were killed in the September 11th attacks? Not even 3,000.

I'm not saying that 3,000 deaths isn't a bad thing, but we really value tragedies in English speaking countries much, much, much higher than the rest of the whole bloody worth, it's this stupid culture of disassociation and it sickens me.

[•••••••••••••]

1. Mao Tsedong: 73 million Chinese deaths (1945 - 1976)

2. Joseph Stalin: 60 million polictical purges (1922 - 1953)

3. Hitler: 50 million civilian deaths by democide and by deaths in concentration camps

4. Hideki Tojo: 30 million deaths of Chinese civilians during World War II

5. Pol Pot: - 3 million deaths in Cambodia in the 1970s

6. Kim Il Sung: More than 1.6 million political purges and deaths in concentration camps (1946 - 1994)

7. Mengitsu Haile Mariam: 1.5 million deaths by democide in Ethiopia in the 1970s

8. Ismail Enver: 1.5 million deaths of Turkish civilians (1914-1916)

9. Yakubu Gowon: Over 1 million deaths in Nigeria in (1966-1975)

10. Leonid Breshnev: over 900,000 Armenian deaths (1979 - 1982)

I'm guessing the only one you guys have heard about is number 3.

I never said i don't care about innocent lives being taken under any circumstances but i'm saying that if you are going to sympathize with a group of people, please for fucks sake don't feel sorry for Americans for this relatively minor tragedy.

Albeit the events i used are genocides (ethnic cleansing and usually performed under dictatorship) and not an act of terrorism (or government conspiracy) but my point still stands.

[Guyers94]

Don't think we're so naive not to have heard of the Rwandan Genocide and especially not Stalin. You will notice however that the majority of the incidents you mentioned happened over many years. The Twin Towers falling down took just a few hours, in one single event it is one of the worst in history and if you're talking about groups of people, Al-Qaeda (If it was them) have killed many more more people than just on that day. You can't compare 9/11 to any of the incidents on dotty's list.

Laika's post is slightly more sensible and possible to compare with because it happened in a relatively short length of time but still wasn't a singular attack.

[Noscaasi]

Singular attacks? Hiroshima Much?

For me it wasnt just the fact that 3000 people had died. It was the fact that a lot of people, me included thought that we couldnt be touched up here in the westen world. To see live on TV two of the most recognisable US symbols with officer workers throwing themselves out to stop themselves burning to death had a big impact on me as a 13 year old, and same with alot of people here. You say we are so far away what does it matter to us? Well although we are 6000miles away it was showing us Europeans aswell that we arent as safe as we thought. Fear is a powerful emotion, and thats why we will never forget.

After watching Farenheight 911, Loose change and other conspirecy videos I have my doubts when it comes to US goverment claims. Fear is a good way to flock sheep after all.

[Laika]

You're right in the in-once-instance thing, very much so and I'm not criticising you guys, buy all means, just society's treatment of these sort of incidents in general. This attitude was highlighted best during the Sachsgate 'scandal' (Ross/Brand) which essentially had a fifteen minute headlining piece on it followed by 'In other news, many, many people were killed in the Congo today after civil war broke out. Now for the weather!'

[Noscaasi]

You're right in the in-once-instance thing, very much so and I'm not criticising you guys, buy all means, just society's treatment of these sort of incidents in general. This attitude was highlighted best during the Sachsgate 'scandal' (Ross/Brand) which essentially had a fifteen minute headlining piece on it followed by 'In other news, many, many people were killed in the Congo today after civil war broke out. Now for the weather!'

I agree with you, it makes me sick the media can do that. Lets hope that one day we consider ourselves human rather than English, European or Westen.

[Laika]

I agree with you, it makes me sick the media can do that. Lets hope that one day we consider ourselves human rather than English, European or Westen.

Amen brother. Let's start by all singing Journey, eh? :crown:

[•••••••••••••]

It doesn't matter that it was only a singular attack. My point still stands that people only seem to care about something when it can directly relate to them. If you're going to care about one tragedy like this you have to care about them all as much as you would if it was happening to your country otherwise we all become a hypocritical and selfish species.

And Guyers94 : If you can compare a single event to something that happened over the period of 3 months you can compare it to something that happened over several years. Can't choose one but not the other.

It's just a major tragedy if it happened over a long period of time or in one day. I'm sure many more than 3000 people died when Japan invaded China with all it's military force and raped and burned down the nearest cities to the eastern coast including Shanghai and even as far as Hong Kong.

[Mnia786]

You would think that they could find out who really did it.

Then kill them and all there families for what they did.

Hmm, I thought that has been happening for a while now... 100 000 Iraqis killed in 6 years with god know how many children? :shocked2:

[Vapor17]

Hmm, I thought that has been happening for a while now... 100 000 Iraqis killed in 6 years with god know how many children? :shocked2:

yeah, it's horrible:shocked2:

[Hazel1558]

Tough subject to talk about this, a dreadful loss of life and no one deserved to die because of this. What a sheer horrible and tragic thing to happen.

There is alot of conspiracy round this and I have my own views on it and I totally agree their is definitely foul play. All I am gonna say is the US could find Sadam quick enough but when it comes to Osma they can't seem to find him, how f****** dodgy is that?
Sorry but its a load of tissue and people who think that the gov isnt in on it is defo naive sorry but thats the truth.

All the people that were involved in this should be shot.

[Residentzombie]

listen everyone vertigu is 100% correct. Our own government (the US) pulled off the 9/11 attacks just as the UK government pulled off the subway bombings. They did this so that we would succum to our governments to 'save us'. There are tons off facts that support the fact that 9/11 was an inside job. First is plane feul does NOT take down a building like that. It was imploded using small nuclear bombs planted long before the attacks and set off AFTER the planes hit. Also you may not know much about Building 7 it was the THIRD building to be brought down by the government even though NO plane hit it. I realize we cannot understand without knowledge as to why our own governments would do such an evil thing, but you must understand who our governments work for.

They work for an 'elite' global group bent on unifying all worlds to come together under their control, a New World Order. 1 government, 1 religion, 1 monetary system, and 1 set of laws for everyone. This has been going on LONG before Hitler and the Nazi regeme, but it was too quick and people rejected the idea. This time around they are SLOWLY adjusting us to their way of doing things. They cause the problem and they provide the solution. Freedom of all is under attack daily and they use false flag 'terrot attacks' to make us conform to allow them to do whatever they want to make us 'safe'.

Please people research for yourself why people are saying that it was an inside job before just brushing off the notion it is crazy talk. You have to listen to what the truthers have to say before you say they are lying.

[Residentzombie]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6015291679758430958&q=%22an+idea+whose+time+has+come%22&total=17&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

great explanation of what the New World Order is.

My Youtube page has some intersting videos as well as to what the New World Order wants to accomplish:

http://www.youtube.com/user/residentzombie

please at least watch the first video it is an hour long but you will understand what the NWO is. Undersdtand your enemy and the power of mind manipulation. If you are told 2+2=5 your entire life you will believe it because that is all you know. Knowledge is power.

[M-47]

its well good have you seen the video were they hang osama bin laden and they say to him have you got any last words and he starts to scream praying and while he is praying they drop him
serves the bastard right

[vertigu9219]

listen everyone vertigu is 100% correct. Our own government (the US) pulled off the 9/11 attacks just as the UK government pulled off the subway bombings. They did this so that we would succum to our governments to 'save us'. There are tons off facts that support the fact that 9/11 was an inside job. First is plane feul does NOT take down a building like that. It was imploded using small nuclear bombs planted long before the attacks and set off AFTER the planes hit. Also you may not know much about Building 7 it was the THIRD building to be brought down by the government even though NO plane hit it. I realize we cannot understand without knowledge as to why our own governments would do such an evil thing, but you must understand who our governments work for.

They work for an 'elite' global group bent on unifying all worlds to come together under their control, a New World Order. 1 government, 1 religion, 1 monetary system, and 1 set of laws for everyone. This has been going on LONG before Hitler and the Nazi regeme, but it was too quick and people rejected the idea. This time around they are SLOWLY adjusting us to their way of doing things. They cause the problem and they provide the solution. Freedom of all is under attack daily and they use false flag 'terrot attacks' to make us conform to allow them to do whatever they want to make us 'safe'.

Please people research for yourself why people are saying that it was an inside job before just brushing off the notion it is crazy talk. You have to listen to what the truthers have to say before you say they are lying.

Fair enough but if you are asking people to do research then maybe you should do so yourself first. The method of demolition used on the twin towers is believed to be a thermite reaction. Themite burns at a higher temperature than aviation fuel, this accounts for the 2 weeks of intense fires that burned at ground zero following the demolitions. If the detonations which have been observed were of an atomic nature then the brave men and women of the rescue services would be dead or dying of radiation sickness and related illnessess instead of the pulminary problems from which many of them suffer.

[civilred1]

To those who say it wasn't a conspiracy, here's (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7E3oIbO0AWE) undeniable evidence. Watch it, then come back and tell me it wasn't for money (or as Vertigu put it, GOD)

[Tassy]

To those who say it wasn't a conspiracy, here's (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7E3oIbO0AWE) undeniable evidence. Watch it, then come back and tell me it wasn't for money (or as Vertigu put it, GOD)

True all adds up i knw it waz a conspiracy any way :D

but wouldn't the goverment try 2 kill him to silence him i.e the 1 who made the video loose change

[vertigu9219]

True all adds up i knw it waz a conspiracy any way :D

but wouldn't the goverment try 2 kill him to silence him i.e the 1 who made the video loose change

You will notice the main stream news media does the killing for the government by calling them wackos and crazies and especially in the US, unpatriotic.
I am not saying news networks are part of a conspiracy, they just aid in sugar coating the lies.

[Transcendence]

Do you guys get kicks out of trying to prove that the government is responsible for everything? I've always wanted to know why people trust whoever is distrustful of the government. They're the one making accusations with whatever motive that you guys probably don't know about. Maybe it's personal and they have a biased view on the facts which may be manufactured or manipulated to suit what they want. Ever think of that?

[RhysHughes]

I believe it was one of Nostradamus' prophecies that they linked to this attack.
But they also linked another one of his doomsday prophecies to the hadron colider thing, so i wouldnt take that too seriously.
Anyway i dont think there was a conspiracy.

while you are right, it was nostradamus who prophecised that this would happen, and although they did link another of his doomsday prophecies to the hadron colider it has since been studied and analyzed much more in depth and many of the worlds greatest scholars and minds have deduced that the hadron colider thing does not feature in any of his prophecies, 911 was not the first thing he prophecised and nor was it anywhere near the last, although there are many theories floating around about his legitimacy none of us are ever likely to know the real truth about it, and just incase you want to check up on the stuff he predicted many thousnads of years ago there are books which have been writing depicting his tellings, but you will only find accurate ones detailing upto modern day disastors, none of the many books accurate books will detail any upcoming prophecies no matter how far away they are, and although we cannot read his actuall tellings there are many facts about it which has been leeked from various governments throughout the years, and so far not one things he has predicted has ever come wrong, so before anybody starts thinking he was just some guy who lived not so long ago who predicted a lot of shite things were goong to happen i suggest you check out what your talking about!!!!!

im sorry if my opinions or views have offended anybody but this is just one of the many things which i am deeply interested in and nostradamus is somebody who i regard as one of the greatest persons ever to have lived, possibly even a better mind than more famous people such as einsteing and newton, but hey there ya go, theres my two pence worth, as i said i dont mean to offend anybody but hey if you don't like it i don't care, its my opinion and im entitled to it

[vertigu9219]

Do you guys get kicks out of trying to prove that the government is responsible for everything? I've always wanted to know why people trust whoever is distrustful of the government. They're the one making accusations with whatever motive that you guys probably don't know about. Maybe it's personal and they have a biased view on the facts which may be manufactured or manipulated to suit what they want. Ever think of that?

Listen bud, when two of the tallest buildings in the world collapse and it looks like a controlled demolition but you are told its because of fire you start to think "hey thats a bit strange". Then a 3rd one falls due to fire. Then you find out no structures of this sort have ever collapsed unless demolished. A plane crashes into a field but there is no signs of wreckage. The building with the most security cameras watching it in the world has a plane flown into it but the only footage available shows no plane only a bright flash explosion. Now you must be thinking "its really weird all this". Because if you dont you must be blinkered or retarded. Then you find out that the air response units were not available because of excersises in the north atlantic simulating airline hijack procedure and the 2 jets left to defend the entire east coast of the USA were not scrambled till almost 30 minutes after the first aircraft hit the tower. Seriously i could keep going with all the pieces of information which are fact not part of any whacked out theories or someones opinion which as you say can have its own agenda.
I dont want to believe in this and tried to put it all down to coincidence at first but the more you find out the less you believe the official explanation.

[Transcendence]

Stop missing my fucking point man. These facts you lean on, how can anyone prove that they are valid? Stop being so fucking narrow minded and listen to what i'm actually saying.

You just see that i don't agree with a conspiracy theory and fire random - obviously infallible according to you - facts about it as if i want to hear it.

[vertigu9219]

Stop missing my fucking point man. These facts you lean on, how can anyone prove that they are valid? Stop being so fucking narrow minded and listen to what i'm actually saying.

You just see that i don't agree with a conspiracy theory and fire random - obviously infallible according to you - facts about it as if i want to hear it.

I am not missing your FUCKING point MAN. They are self FUCKING evident irrrefutable facts. I dont lean on these facts and i thought i had made it clear that these facts are actually what lead to me changing my mind from being narrow-fucking minded on this subject to having a perfectly clear and broadened mind.
Lets get one thing staight here. I dont give a flying fuck if you think this is a conspiracy theory or the truth or a flying purple fucking dinosaur this is a discussion forum and thats what i am doing- discussing.
You originally said this
"Do you guys get kicks out of trying to prove that the government is responsible for everything? I've always wanted to know why people trust whoever is distrustful of the government. They're the one making accusations with whatever motive that you guys probably don't know about. Maybe it's personal and they have a biased view on the facts which may be manufactured or manipulated to suit what they want. Ever think of that?"
And i told you that it was not other people putting ideas of an alternative truth in my head but it was the events which were fishy, that lead me to believe in a different theory.
If you dont want to hear a members opinion then maybe you should stop responding to these threads and just moderate them like a good boy.

[Transcendence]

I am still not convinced that these facts are as infallible and irrefutable as you say they are. I may be cynical in that way, but it just seems to me like a lot of people openly embrace anything that seems sketchy about the government. I'm sorry if i thought you were one of those people and you're not.

I'm yet to be convinced.

[King_Ubu]

To those who say it wasn't a conspiracy, here's (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7E3oIbO0AWE) undeniable evidence. Watch it, then come back and tell me it wasn't for money (or as Vertigu put it, GOD)

Oh... loose Change... i thought you had something interesting...

Loose Change, it's certainly good at attracting fans on the internet. But a big problem that I have with it, is that the makers of it constantly undermine it, both in the video and from interviews outside of it.

I once remember this show that was on Channel 4, it was something like "The 9/11 conspiracy" it had a look at every single 9/11 conspiracy and tried to debunk it, it was a pretty good show, just about everything had an explanation that made sense, and they even recreated a few tests, such as the exploding windows and even the toppling of that other building.

They also interviewed the makers of Small Change and said "Popular Mechanics viewed your video and your evidence, and they said that the majority of your claims and science is completely wrong." To which this teenage kid turned around and said "Popular Mechanics should stick to what they know! Thats tractors and farming equipment!"

So I'm sat at home watching this and thinking, whoa! So if thats his attitude, my question to him is, "and what makes you a building inspector expert, an aviation expert, a fire chief, a paramedic, a politician and an expert in human psychology, you're a bloody high school kid with a laptop and and video camera!"

So many people link and quote that video as though it's some kind of holy grail of information, when the vast majority of the information in it doesn't even remotely link to what happened or... and I find this is important... actually correct!

[vertigu9219]

I am still not convinced that these facts are as infallible and irrefutable as you say they are. I may be cynical in that way, but it just seems to me like a lot of people openly embrace anything that seems sketchy about the government. I'm sorry if i thought you were one of those people and you're not.

I'm yet to be convinced.

If their were more people who openly embraced ideas of government wrong doing then maybe they would stop sending our soldiers to get fucked up or killed in Afghanistan.
But I do understand your pov. There is conspiracy to be found in everything if you look hard enough and people are far too quick to take the hook.
I apologise to you for being a bit abrupt ^^ but i am not a silly wee laddie who makes up his mind on the say so of others.

[Transcendence]

Okay, glad we got that cleared up.

[Murton]

All I am gonna say is the US could find Sadam quick enough but when it comes to Osma they can't seem to find him, how f****** dodgy is that?

Not even remotely dodgy.

Saddam Hussein resided in his Palace in his capital city. On leaving his palace, given that Baghdad was pretty much locked down by Allied military and there were a good number of the Iraqi population wanted him caught, his hiding place was going to be in the city with plenty of opportunity to gather intelligence to determine his whereabouts.

Osama Bin Laden was in hiding in a cave. In a country with a whole lot of caves.

[Transcendence]

Correct Murton. Hazel is just another example of the narrow minded nitpickers i was talking about earlier.

[vertigu9219]

Alternatively its not at all dodgy because the cia have always known where Osama Bin Laden is or was.? I personally believe he has been a long time dead through hepatitis c. He was using a dialysis machine in 2001. And has widely reported to have been in ill health on many occasions.
Check out the tapes he made. The later ones appear to be a different man??
Who knows.

[Arun.]

Correct Murton. Hazel is just another example of the narrow minded nitpickers i was talking about earlier.

Yeah I try to keep out of convo's like this about conspiracy theories, because even if programs show these theories with an understandable and logic explanation it still doesnt 'Prove' that the government are behind it all, it does always make me wonder when I watch these programs like Ubu [I think it was] who mentioned that 9/11 programs, that program was actually fairly intresting but it doesnt prove nothing, noone will ever know the truth behind it all.

Reading this convo I found was also intresting because there is a very good debate going on.

[Murton]

Check out the tapes he made. The later ones appear to be a different man??
Who knows.

The beard was a bit darker, but maybe he just trimmed the grey.

Or maybe he's the Afghan Dread Pirate Roberts.

[vertigu9219]

:)
The princess bride. Now that was a good movie.
It would be funny if the paras found an afghan cave full of lookielikies all claiming to be Osama.

[Transcendence]

I am Spartacus! Although not quite as noble a claim when you claim to be Saddam Hussein.

[vertigu9219]

On reflection it is'nt as daft as it sounds. Hussein was said to have had a number of doubles.
Some have been caught on camera.

http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt52/vertigu9219/SNF13BIZPIC_280_451685a.jpg

http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt52/vertigu9219/borat-high-five.jpg

http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt52/vertigu9219/g-souness.jpg

[Transcendence]

Remember you're still in Serious Discussion Vertigu. Don't take it too far. ^^

[Murton]

Remember you're still in Serious Discussion Vertigu. Don't take it too far. ^^

My fault, I started it with the Dread Pirate Roberts thing, without explaining my reference.


On reflection it is'nt as daft as it sounds.

It isn't, and to put the Princess Bride reference into context for those unlucky enough not to have seen that brilliant movie...

The Dread Pirate Roberts had amassed a fortune and fearsome reputation, but wanted to retire and enjoy his spoils. To do this, he chose a successor, got a whole new crew when pulling into his next port, and stayed on the ship himself referring to his chosen successor as "Captain Roberts" until such time as the crew were convinced that this was indeed the Dread Pirate and them the real Roberts went to enjoy his retirement.

Each successive "Dread Pirate Roberts" used this same technique when they decided to call time on their life on the seas. Because of this, the legend of the Dread Pirate lived on and put more fear into the hearts of seafaring types than would have happened had random new pirate names have kept appearing.

So if Bin Laden was ill, and looks ever so slightly different now (as much as blokes with ma-hooosive beards swarthed in a tonne of cloth can look different) then it's always possible that rather than have the infidels celebrate his passing, they pass on the Bin Laden mantle to another and have him continue the feared reputation rather than lose it...

[Dom]

I can remember 9/11 happening like it was yesterday :(
It was very, very strange and horrific watching the footage on the news. People who post negative comments (to say the least) on youtube, or other video sites, should imagine themselves in the position of someone who lost a loved who on that day. And imagine how they would feel if they lost someone important to them.

Terrorists who did this can't be found that easily. I mean, they are not hiding without radar jammers, snipers guarding every direction, land mines, RPGs etc...
So at the moment these awful people are out there somewhere, probably planning another attack :sick:

[EstonianBeast]

I bet you wouldnt say i love al quasada masada pelahendrosada after they shot ur family....

[Transcendence]

Dom : I'm guessing you think of 9/11 as soon as someone says terrorist attack right? Or even major disaster. Well if so that's ridiculous. As i've said before i don't feel right to emphasize with such a nation of hypocrites and egotistical maniacs who freak out as soon as they feel threatened even in the slightest.

I feel sympathy for the families who lost people but that's as far as my sympathy goes.

[Haza103]

Dom : I'm guessing you think of 9/11 as soon as someone says terrorist attack right? Or even major disaster. Well if so that's ridiculous.

Well if a few thousand innocent people die i would class that as a pretty bad disaster. Saying that far more people died in things like the 2004 tsunami, but it would still be a major disaster for family members, friends etc.

[Transcendence]

Exactly what i just said kind of. I wouldn't call 3 thousand people a huge deal in the long run. Just because it happened to the western society doesn't make it a bigger deal.

[Dom]

Dom : I'm guessing you think of 9/11 as soon as someone says terrorist attack right? Or even major disaster. Well if so that's ridiculous. As i've said before i don't feel right to emphasize with such a nation of hypocrites and egotistical maniacs who freak out as soon as they feel threatened even in the slightest.

I feel sympathy for the families who lost people but that's as far as my sympathy goes.

No I don't think of 9/11 as soon as terrorist attack is mentioned, but 9/11 is a prime example of one. I actually hadn't thought about 9/11 since a few weeks ago, when I was watching something to do with stopping another terrorist attack on London.

We were talking about 9/11 anyway, not about if we like Americans or think they are "a nation of hypocrites and egotistical maniacs".

I was simply talking about how I felt on the 9th of September 2001, and as a 9 year old, it was a shocking thing to see and hear about.

[vertigu9219]

Exactly what i just said kind of. I wouldn't call 3 thousand people a huge deal in the long run. Just because it happened to the western society doesn't make it a bigger deal.

I am sure you will concede that the attacks of 9/11 whether implemented by terrorists or by government complicity led directly to the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan.
Taken in that context the death tally is much more significant.
3017 died due to the 9/11 attacks
7000 (approx) coalition troops and contracted personel dead since 2003 in Iraq and Afghanistan
1.3 million (est) dead Iraqi civillians since 2003.
750,000 (est) dead Afghan civillians since 2003.

It is also worth a mention that on average 15 US Iraq war vets commit suicide on a daily basis.

Is 2 million non westerners a big enough deal for you?

[Transcendence]

15 US Iraq vets a day kill themselves?

There you have it Dom.

[Dom]

Have what?

[Transcendence]

If 15 vets a day kill themselves a day and you still really give a shit about 3,000 people dying.

[Dom]

I never said I gave a shit about anyone dying.

I just said that 9/11 wasn't nice.

[Transcendence]

I was talking about how the press and people hype it up to be a huge thing when it really isn't.

[JayBox]

When anyone dies is Hype. Especially thousands of innocent lives.
And while I was in New York I was spoken too by a Iraqi vet and he was talking about how the US (at the time) had no scheme to help the vets with post war neurotic disorders. Which is sick.

[sameh_93]

i dont agree

thats too good for them, we should capture them, then make them suffer as they make thousands suffer and die. they made people make the impossible choice, burn to death, suffocate on smoke to death, or fall to their death.

therefore they should suffer, so if i hear people saying, "we shouldnt be in Afghanistan" then i will show them this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0Qu6eyyr4c&feature=related

That video makes me sick!

What i'd do to these people that did this! You don't want to know.

[MrRichard]

That video makes me sick!

What i'd do to these people that did this! You don't want to know.

I do, please explain.

[sameh_93]

I do, please explain.

Stick it up their pooper

[MrRichard]

Stick it up their pooper

Thanks for clearing that up ;)

[Laika]

Tell me Sameh, do you know how many innocent civillians in the Middle-East have died as the result of 'The West's' actions since 9/11? Far more than those in 9/11 but the so-called 'terrorists'. Granted, they were deliberately trying to kill civiliians, it's merely a different means to an unfortunately similar end.

[JayBox]

Either way...
I am surprised it has been 8 years, and the Middle East is still breaking and has not been nuked yet.
Kill them all. :)

[Gangsta-boi-Alex]

I'd sold the plane instead of being a suicide bomber, did the rob the planes?

[vertigu9219]

I saw this thread had been added to and thought i would investigate hoping to find some intelligent or insightful comment.
I guess not eh.
8 years on and this subject far from being the nodal point of a generation has become a topic of humor for children.

[tuuttuut1]

I'd sold the plane instead of being a suicide bomber, did the rob the planes?

........

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/picard-facepalm.jpg

[pearce1966]

it was its its anneresary a week ago

[vertigu9219]

it was its its anneresary a week ago

Thats right...now put the vodka down and step away from the bottle.:P