Happy Easter?

[kool_ari]

I sit in my room and wonder to myself why there are so many people out there going to church and wanting to be saved. What better a day to contemplate existence then on a day that is pivotal to all Christian existence? A man named Jesus 2000 years ago died to save us from ourselves, from sin right? That's how I was raised, believe and you will be saved.

My newest thought though is "What am I supposed to be saved from?” Am I to be saved from: Eternal suffering, a lake of fire, pain, anguish, torture, and burning, searing, never-ending sadness? Is that why people go to Church? Save them from Hell?

Over the past couple of weeks I've seen many a video on YouTube dealing with the origin of the universe and seen two stories, one of science, a rapid expansion of the universe to what it is today, and then one of creationism (in short something created everything). Science was completely developed by inquisitive humans and everything we meddled with, Creationism comes in many forms of old books.

I will start by putting a firm foot on the human side, I personally see no need for a creator, and in that light, I would bet on most scientific theories would be correct, even if those theories would not be proven in my lifetime.

So let's start this.

[Haza103]

What i hate about religion is all the "forgive me this, forgive me that" bullcrap. It's just pure grovelling, and you wouldn't do it to something that probably doesn't exist. Let's face it, Easter is good, because beleiving in the easter bunny is just stupid. Right?

Disagree, two words. Prove it.

[WeLsh_bEn]

Easter is a waste of time, always ruins my plans i have for the weekend.

And it changes every year, i mean Jesus wasn't crucified on like different days each year. Lol Christians cant even make there mind up when it was.

So stupid.

[SaveMeJeebus]

Well I hope there is some kind of heaven but no I don’t believe that there’s a god that created everything and everyone, I know a lot of people do but when you think about evolution then wouldn’t it all just lead to us being created from that?

[RGL_UK]

Easter is a waste of time, always ruins my plans i have for the weekend.

And it changes every year, i mean Jesus wasn't crucified on like different days each year. Lol Christians cant even make there mind up when it was.

So stupid.

See people dont understand and so they make silly comments.

The date of Easter changes because Easter is always celebrated on the Sunday immediately following the Paschal Full Moon, (first full moon after the vernal (spring) equinox.)

So the date of Easter can vary between March 21 to April 18.



I sit in my room and wonder to myself why there are so many people out there going to church and wanting to be saved. What better a day to contemplate existence then on a day that is pivotal to all Christian existence? A man named Jesus 2000 years ago died to save us from ourselves, from sin right? That's how I was raised, believe and you will be saved.

My newest thought though is "What am I supposed to be saved from?” Am I to be saved from: Eternal suffering, a lake of fire, pain, anguish, torture, and burning, searing, never-ending sadness? Is that why people go to Church? Save them from Hell?

Over the past couple of weeks I've seen many a video on YouTube dealing with the origin of the universe and seen two stories, one of science, a rapid expansion of the universe to what it is today, and then one of creationism (in short something created everything). Science was completely developed by inquisitive humans and everything we meddled with, Creationism comes in many forms of old books.

I will start by putting a firm foot on the human side, I personally see no need for a creator, and in that light, I would bet on most scientific theories would be correct, even if those theories would not be proven in my lifetime.

So let's start this.

Easter is a celebration of Jesus dying for us, to save us from sin.
When you say people go to church to save themselves from "Eternal suffering, a lake of fire, pain, anguish, torture, and burning, searing, never-ending sadness" then that is a bad point of view.
If that is the reason you go to church, then at the end of days God will see this and you will be cast down.

People attend church for many reasons, some out of habit or tradition, but church as I know it is an extension of the gathering together of the early Christians to remember what Jesus had done for them, and to express their joy and thankfulness to God through singing, praying, meditating, hearing God's word and to share and be encouraged by fellowship with other Christians.

But the Bible makes clear why people should attend church. "While the Most High dwelleth not in temples, the Most High dwelleth in the people who go to the temples, churches, or whatever one may call them" (see 1 John 3:24).

The gathering may be large or small, but the people are "the church," and they gather because Christ tells them to gather for their own good. A building is just a place where the church can meet. The Greek word for church is "Ekklaysia," which literally means "gathering" or "assembly." The Bible teaches that the primary reason for believers to gather is to encourage one another, which gives every follower of Christ the job of being an encourager (see Hebrews 10:25). The gathering, or assembly, is one of many ways God gives us opportunity to do this.



What i hate about religion is all the "forgive me this, forgive me that" bullcrap. It's just pure grovelling, and you wouldn't do it to something that probably doesn't exist. Let's face it, Easter is good, because beleiving in the easter bunny is just stupid. Right?

Disagree, two words. Prove it.

Prove it doesnt!



Well I hope there is some kind of heaven but no I don’t believe that there’s a god that created everything and everyone, I know a lot of people do but when you think about evolution then wouldn’t it all just lead to us being created from that?

Evolution is a strong theory, but where people get mistaken is the concept that science disproves religion ... it doesnt.

Catholicism actually accepts sciences view in their theories of God, this is called theistic evolution.
That is where God created everything and God could have chose to use evolution as the means of creation.



I bet everyone of you here got at least one Easter egg and if not well you most likely get Christmas presents.
See that is what i find most pathetic, you dont believe in God so why do you believe in his holidays and celebrate them?
Isit because you are so materialistic that all you want is a couple of presents?

[WeLsh_bEn]

Right ok, but Christ did get crucified on only one day .. So why do they change it as its to celebrate that isn't it?

Doesn't make sense, i mean Christmas doesn't change..

RGL ever thought of being a RE teacher? :)

[PandaPanic!]

Right ok, but Christ did get crucified on only one day .. So why do they change it as its to celebrate that isn't it?

Doesn't make sense, i mean Christmas doesn't change..

Jesus was crucified on Good Friday two days later on Easter Sunday is when Jesus comes back from the dead. this is why the date changes because your birthday always moves a day forward every year after you have celebrated it. Now think about it this way if Jesus resurrection was on a Sunday would there be any point celebrating it the next Tuesday so in that sense it is different from Christmas because that was when Jesus was born and i guess Easter is celebrated by the days of the week and not a set date e.g 13th April.

[RGL_UK]

Right ok, but Christ did get crucified on only one day .. So why do they change it as its to celebrate that isn't it?

Doesn't make sense, i mean Christmas doesn't change..

RGL ever thought of being a RE teacher? :)

1) Easter date follows the Paschal full moon.

2) Paschal when translated means Passover.

3) Easter is linked with Passover. (New Testament links the Last Supper with Passover)

4) According to Paul, as Jesus prepared himself and his disciples for his death during the Last Supper, he said:

"Get rid of the old yeast that you may be a new batch without yeast—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed"

5) This refers to the Passover requirement to have no yeast in the house and to Christ's identification as the Paschal (passover) lamb.

6) One interpretation of the Gospel of John is that Jesus, as the Passover lamb, was crucified at roughly the same time as the Passover lambs were being slain in the temple.

So to be honest its more a matter of tradition than anything else.

Oh and na i dont think i could be a R.E teacher lmao.

[sameh_93]

Easter is a douche. Why would we celebrate someones death? I'm glad we get time of school and thats it.

[RGL_UK]

Easter is a douche. Why would we celebrate someones death? I'm glad we get time of school and thats it.

At funerals we celebrate someones life and all they have done in it, why should we not do the same for Jesus?

Isit because he died so many years ago, so why should you bother ???
Isit because you just cant be bothered to think of someone else rather than yourself ???
Isit because you have such a limited knowledge on the subject, that you just dont care ???

What if your parents died/or have died would you not visit/do you not visit there graves?
Visiting someone's grave is a mark of respect for them and a way of remembering all they did.
Should we not give the same level of appreciation to him, the man who died for us?

No one is asking you to celebrate it, No one is asking you to like it but you most likely still do, when you recieve "Easter eggs", and like i said earlier why do you take part in Christmas then?

Fair enough you have a right to your opinion, but then so does the millions of people who believe in Easter.

[Richie]

Easter is a douche. Why would we celebrate someones death? I'm glad we get time of school and thats it.

As RGL says, Easter is not celebrating Jesus' death. It's celebrating the act of Jesus dying for our sins and of his resurrection on the Sunday.

Now, I'm not a religious guy, far from it. I'm about as agnostic a person as you'll find. I'll believe God is true when I see proof that he is - to me, all the science that contradicts these religions is far more believable so that's where I stand. But as far as Easter goes, I can see why it is a celebrated time for Christians who do believe in Jesus/God. And yea, it's great that we all get time off for it too :D

[RGL_UK]

As RGL says, Easter is not celebrating Jesus' death. It's celebrating the act of Jesus dying for our sins and of his resurrection on the Sunday.

Now, I'm not a religious guy, far from it. I'm about as agnostic a person as you'll find. I'll believe God is true when I see proof that he is - to me, all the science that contradicts these religions is far more believable so that's where I stand. But as far as Easter goes, I can see why it is a celebrated time for Christians who do believe in Jesus/God. And yea, it's great that we all get time off for it too :D

Ever thought about looking into Theistic evolution, its what i believe in being true.
Its like science and religion coming into one :D.

[Varshio]

So you beleive in talking snakes and all that?,jesus never existed period.

[RGL_UK]

So you beleive in talking snakes and all that?,jesus never existed period.

Oh dear ... :(!
Please say you just didnt say that lmao!
When you read the Bible you dont take it literally, you use faith and reason to understand it.

Lets use your example of a "snake talking" in the Garden of Eden.

First of all what is the google defination of "snake":

Definitions of snake on the Web:

* limbless scaly elongate reptile; some are venomous
* a deceitful or treacherous person

Oh my ..... "a deceitful or treacherous person": .... Ever thought when the Bible talks of a snake this is what it means, rather than in the literal sense of the word?

[Varshio]

In my opinion the bible is all a myth like the greeks tale tales of Zeuz and Poseidon etc
I cant possibly beleive that someone created the universe, changed rocks and water into wine and food even if you shouldnt take the storys literaly (even though thats how they were written which is weird) but thats my opinion. I think if there was a god then he would not favour the religious ass kissers out there ranting on how great he is and forgeting about decent hardworking non religious people.Some religious nut's think they get extra credit for going to church. I am not looking for an argument,everyone has a right to their own opinions and beliefs so i will not say another word about it.

[RGL_UK]

In my opinion the bible is all a myth like the greeks tale tales of Zeuz and Poseidon etc
I cant possibly beleive that someone created the universe, changed rocks and water into wine and food even if you shouldnt take the storys literaly (even though thats how they were written which is weird) but thats my opinion. I think if there was a god then he would not favour the religious ass kissers out there ranting on how great he is and forgeting about decent hardworking non religious people.Some religious nut's think they get extra credit for going to church. I am not looking for an argument,everyone has a right to their own opinions and beliefs so i will not say another word about it.

Nooooooooooooooooooo :(!
Im not trying to say your opinion is wrong, like you said everyone has an opinion mate.

God doesnt favour the "arse lickers", the ones who only are being good to get into Heaven.
In fact he punishes them, for being like that.

I understand i cant make you believe what i do, but i just think people should have a certain amount of knowledge about religion because, even from this short thread i can see people just dont understand what its about.

That might not be though any fault of there own, just the way they was taught.

Im so sorry if i have offended you in anyway, i didnt mean to :(.

[Varshio]

Not at all, everyone has i right to beleive what they want , like you said just the way they were taught:)

[sameh_93]

At funerals we celebrate someones life and all they have done in it, why should we not do the same for Jesus?

Yeah a funeral isnt a time of happiness and nowadays easter is.

[RGL_UK]

Yeah a funeral isnt a time of happiness and nowadays easter is.

Yes it is a time for happiness.
Maybe not the actual burial but the party afterwards is.

[WeLsh_bEn]

At funerals we celebrate someones life and all they have done in it, why should we not do the same for Jesus?

Isit because he died so many years ago, so why should you bother ???
Isit because you just cant be bothered to think of someone else rather than yourself ???
Isit because you have such a limited knowledge on the subject, that you just dont care ???

What if your parents died/or have died would you not visit/do you not visit there graves?
Visiting someone's grave is a mark of respect for them and a way of remembering all they did.
Should we not give the same level of appreciation to him, the man who died for us?

No one is asking you to celebrate it, No one is asking you to like it but you most likely still do, when you recieve "Easter eggs", and like i said earlier why do you take part in Christmas then?

Fair enough you have a right to your opinion, but then so does the millions of people who believe in Easter.

Its because we have no hard proof that Jesus even existed. Not from what iv heard anyway..

[RGL_UK]

Its because we have no hard proof that Jesus even existed. Not from what iv heard anyway..

Well there is infact,
We have scriptures to provide evidence and also Roman documents which tell us that there was a Jesus around at the time, He was killed for claiming to be the son of God, Even some of the stuff he done has been documented by them.
Since any Roman who was proven a liar was killed the documents are vaild and also the Romans wouldnt of gotten anything out of documenting Jesus so there it is .. evidence :).

So i ask you IS there hard proof he didnt exist ?

[sameh_93]

And how does this prove that God exists?

[RGL_UK]

And how does this prove that God exists?

Ben commented saying Jesus didnt exist, and i pointed out evidence saying he did infact exist, no one mentioned God.
I never once claimed God existed in this whole thread :).

[Plozak]

What do the documents claim this Jesus guy did?,Any nutcase can walk around saying he's the son of god. Also if he was killed for claiming that then it does'nt tie in with the bible story does it? why did he not come back to life lol.

[RGL_UK]

What do the documents claim this Jesus guy did?,Any nutcase can walk around saying he's the son of god. Also if he was killed for claiming that then it does'nt tie in with the bible story does it? why did he not come back to life lol.

Ben said Jesus didnt exist i provided evidence for him being alive.
Why should he resurrect himself again, to prove himself to people who dont believe, why should he bother?

[kool_ari]

Well this certainly generated a lot of replies very quickly so I'll try and keep my responses short and quote messages by response number!

RGL_UK: in response to #5
Easter does change weekends from end-march to mid-April
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter
Funny, though because Christianity has nothing to do with the moon, so why would everything fall on a weekend after the first full moon after the vernal equinox... oh wait it shouldn't because Christianity has nothing to do with Pagan religion, or does it?

Maybe we should take a step back for a second lets see what religion is:

Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion
A religion is an organized approach to human spirituality which usually encompasses a set of narratives, symbols, beliefs and practices, often with a supernatural or transcendent quality, that give meaning to the practitioner's experiences of life through reference to a higher power or truth.

Dictionary.com: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion
A set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

Okay from these two definitions I receive the fact that a religion is an organized way of presenting the supernatural, with the aid of stories symbols, beliefs, practices, all to give meaning to the universe, and instructions on how we should treat one another.

All should be well, because up to around 300 years ago this thing called the scientific method came about and showed a new viewpoint.

Let's just confirm that most Christians believe that the bible was written by god and for the most part everything contained in it was forged by his hand through people.

The bible indirectly states through its geneology contained in Genesis that the earth is 6,000 years old, science through cosmological research shows that the universe is at least 13,700,000,000 years old.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bRvt0InhYk&feature=PlayList&p=5975FF2FEECF90D3&index=0&playnext=1

Wow, and that series goes on for an hour, watch the whole thing its very informative. This would mean that the creation stories contained in the bible are myths, laeding to the fact that the bible must be incorrect, but god cannot be wrong, so the universe must be 6000 years old. However no man can laugh in the face of science so the Catholics were the first people to step up and say yes, the creation stories are myths, giving birth to theistic evolution.

And your last point that Christmas is a Christian holiday, and Easter too? you just said that Easter is related to passover, to Jesus kinda stole that idea from the Jews, I wonder what else Jesus *cough cough* Christanity stole from the pre-Christian era, other then the old testament.
Anyone ever heard of Horus?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH66MsrmE50&feature=related
Hmm thats pretty big, a lot of parallels if you ask me.
Dispute them if you want they are real, oh and why would we celebrate chrismas at the end of a year, maybe its because we lived through it and should celebrate being alive?

Reply to #10
Theres a difference between celebrating someone's life at a funeral, adn celebrateing Jesus' death, usually you only throw one funeral for a person and this isn't continued for thousands of years. so sure let's give him one good go he did a lot of good things.
Does that sum up all three of you questions?

[Haza103]

Wow. RGL VS!

Christianity: One womans lie about having an affair getting way out of hand!

[RGL_UK]

Wow. RGL VS!

Christianity: One womans lie about having an affair getting way out of hand!

Lmao it does seem to be againest everyone lol!
I think im holding my own though :S!

Are you talking about the Da Vinci Code?

[Richie]

Lol, he's talking about Mary sleeping with someone else and then lieing to Joseph saying it was god :D

Incidentally, the Da Vinci Code is quite a good book.

[kool_ari]

RGL_UK why do you believe there is a creator?

[WeLsh_bEn]

Well there is infact,
We have scriptures to provide evidence and also Roman documents which tell us that there was a Jesus around at the time, He was killed for claiming to be the son of God, Even some of the stuff he done has been documented by them.
Since any Roman who was proven a liar was killed the documents are vaild and also the Romans wouldnt of gotten anything out of documenting Jesus so there it is .. evidence :).

So i ask you IS there hard proof he didnt exist ?

Yes, maybe a man called Jesus did exist and he was a good dooer, helping people out. But what i kinda mean is there is no evidence for this Jesus that has all these powers who can heal people just like that

[kool_ari]

Yes, maybe a man called Jesus did exist and he was a good dooer, helping people out. But what i kinda mean is there is no evidence for this Jesus that has all these powers who can heal people just like that

2000 years will do that to evidence

[Haza103]

Lmao it does seem to be againest everyone lol!
I think im holding my own though :S!

Are you talking about the Da Vinci Code?

Nah it's just some thing i heard, and yea your holding pretty well :P

[sameh_93]

Lol, he's talking about Mary sleeping with someone else and then lieing to Joseph saying it was god :D


Hehe xD

[RGL_UK]

Lol, he's talking about Mary sleeping with someone else and then lieing to Joseph saying it was god :D

Incidentally, the Da Vinci Code is quite a good book.

It is possible a virgin can have a baby, but the chances are virtuallt zero.

For a virgin to get pregnant, one of her eggs would have to produce, on its own, the biochemical changes indicative of fertilization, and then divide abnormally to compensate for the lack of sperm DNA.

That's the easy part: These two events occur in the eggs or egg precursor cells of one out of every few thousand women. But the egg would also need to be carrying at least two specific genetic deletions to produce a viable offspring.

An egg will only start dividing once it senses a spike in cellular calcium. This normally occurs as a result of a sperm's entry during fertilization. But if the egg happens to experience a spontaneous calcium spike, it will start reacting as if it's been fertilized. In the lab, scientists can coax unfertilized eggs into beginning the post-fertilization process by simply injecting them with calcium.
Maybe some calcium entered the cells.

Maybe Mary was one of the very very very very very very very very rare people to have this experiance.

But then medical tests could have been done (manual examination by a qualified woman) to determine if her hymen was broken before marriage, which would have been reported to have been broken.

If a women was found to have had sex before marriage she would of been placed in a religious court and most likely killed by her parents as a honour killing, (similar to today in certain societies).


RGL_UK why do you believe there is a creator?

I believe because it sounds weird but its like, you have someone there for you no matter what.
At your lowest moment to the highest, to when you feel totally alone to when your surrounded by people, that there is someone there for you who loves you.

Suppose its a comfort thing, but then what is the meaning of life without a God?

Ok then well the complexity of our planet points to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today.

Now your turn, care to answer my questions that provide a better answer;

The universe came into existence at a point in the distant past. Nothing can come into existence by itself, unless there is something to bring it into existence; nothing comes from nothing. There must therefore be some being outside of the universe that caused the universe to exist.

1) The universe had a start, what caused it?
2) The universe operates by uniform laws of nature. Why does it do thuis?

Then finally

3) The DNA code informs, programs a cell's behavior. How did this information program wind up in each human cell?

4) DNA is not just chemicals. These are chemicals that instruct, that code in a very detailed way exactly how the person's body should develop.?



Yes, maybe a man called Jesus did exist and he was a good dooer, helping people out. But what i kinda mean is there is no evidence for this Jesus that has all these powers who can heal people just like that

Is there evidence saying he didnt do the acts claimed?

[WeLsh_bEn]

What the hell is all this "Is there evidence that he didn't do that"

So you believe that you could heal blind people? And people who were paralysed..

I'm sorry but if you believe that, that actually happened and there isn't any evidence for it then you must be a little simple.

[RGL_UK]

What the hell is all this "Is there evidence that he didn't do that"

So you believe that you could heal blind people? And people who were paralysed..

I'm sorry but if you believe that, that actually happened and there isn't any evidence for it then you must be a little simple.

You claim i am simple, yet i am prob alot smarter than you.
Read my post above how much of that could you do/understand.

So your saying all who believe in God are simple.
I have taken serious offensive to your comment and will be reporting it.

[WeLsh_bEn]

You claim i am simple, yet i am prob alot smarter than you.
Read my post above how much of that could you do/understand.

So your saying all who believe in God are simple.
I have taken serious offensive to your comment and will be reporting it.

Did i say you were simple? No i didn't. I said anyone who believes that is simple, that includes some of my family members. And that doesn't mean your stupid it just means your not all there.

Also i didn't say if you believed in god, i said if you believe jesus can do these things. As Its humanly impossible.

Ok report me, maybe God will come down and smite me, you never know.

[Richie]

I know some people who believe in christianity, they're some of the smartest people I know. "Not being all there" has absolutely nothing to do with it. It comes down to faith - some people have it, some people don't, doesn't matter which one a person is and it has no effect on whether they're "all there".

Opinions are opinions. I don't believe Jesus could do those things, but hey, I wasn't there so how can I say whether he did or not. However impossible something may seem, don't rule it out, you don't know for absolute fact that you're right and so there's no point putting others down for "being wrong".

[RGL_UK]

Did i say you were simple? No i didn't. I said anyone who believes that is simple, that includes some of my family members. And that doesn't mean your stupid it just means your not all there.

Also i didn't say if you believed in god, i said if you believe jesus can do these things. As Its humanly impossible.

Ok report me, maybe God will come down and smite me, you never know.

I believe in Jesus doing this stuff so you are calling me simple.
You are also calling anyone of faith who believes Jesus done this stuff simple.

You are still insulting many people Ben, no matter how you try and phrase it.
Check the forum rules, your breaking one.

Oh and maybe he might smite you :D.





Opinions are opinions. I don't believe Jesus could do those things, but hey, I wasn't there so how can I say whether he did or not. However impossible something may seem, don't rule it out, you don't know for absolute fact that you're right and so there's no point putting others down for "being wrong".

See Ben, even though Richie doesnt believe he doesnt go around insulting others.
Maybe take a lesson from his book huh.

[WeLsh_bEn]

I believe in Jesus doing this stuff so you are calling me simple.
You are also calling anyone of faith who believes Jesus done this stuff simple.

You are still insulting many people Ben, no matter how you try and phrase it.
Check the forum rules, your breaking one.

Oh and maybe he might smite you :D.

As people have been pointing out everyone has there own point of view, and that's mine. And if it offends people then it offends people...

[RGL_UK]

Oh well.

[WeLsh_bEn]

Then your ignorent.
Which is not a good trait and is rather offensive and stupidly prejudiced.

I do not wish to take part in this thread anymore because i feel you have turned this entire thread into insulting attacks againest people of faith, rather than a knowledgeable debate between to parties.

Fair enough. :)

[RGL_UK]

As people have been pointing out everyone has there own point of view, and that's mine. And if it offends people then it offends people...

Then your ignorent.
Which is not a good trait and is rather offensive and stupidly prejudiced.

I do not wish to take part in this thread anymore because i feel you have turned this entire thread into insulting attacks againest people of faith, rather than a knowledgeable debate between two parties, maybe it is because you do not possess the knowledge to take part in this debate.

In which case you should stop being so idiotic and actually research the topic before you make a judgment/opinion on something you dont understand, because this thread has painfully shown you do not understand what you are talking about.

[Plozak]

I dont see how god is there for anyone when there is such pain and mysery deseases in the world, why would god create such a place? what is the meaning of life with a god? what possible good has he done for the religeous people i know? nothing except brainwashing them and giving them false hope in life.

[WeLsh_bEn]

Indeed i may not know what I'm talking about, as i don't spend my time researching stuff that's just a story.


I dont see how god is there for anyone when there is such pain and mysery deseases in the world, why would god create such a place? what is the meaning of life with a god? what possible good has he done for the religeous people i know? nothing except brainwashing them and giving them false hope in life.

Absolutely, why is the world such a bad place if we have a "God" up sitting on a cloud watching over us..

[blake_]

i didnt like this easter my laptop went bust :(

as for the poll no science has proved that

[Laika]

What the hell is all this "Is there evidence that he didn't do that"

So you believe that you could heal blind people? And people who were paralysed..

I'm sorry but if you believe that, that actually happened and there isn't any evidence for it then you must be a little simple.

Ben, what you need to understand is that stating your opinion is one thing and that being a dick is another. I'm sorry if the concept of faith is a little alien to you, if you only need absolute concrete proof for something to exist but that is no reason to chastise others who believe differently than you. RGL hit the nail on the head and if you continue in such a manner, further action may be taken.
Congratulations, you've gotten yourself a warning.
-Laika

[WeLsh_bEn]

Ben, what you need to understand is that stating your opinion is one thing and that being a dick is another. I'm sorry if the concept of faith is a little alien to you, if you only need absolute concrete proof for something to exist but that is no reason to chastise others who believe differently than you. RGL hit the nail on the head and if you continue in such a manner, further action may be taken.
Congratulations, you've gotten yourself a warning.
-Laika

Thanks, iv been congratulated on many things today, another one to add to the list :)

Yes i am being a dick, or a cock or even a twat :)

And how did i know it was gonna be Laika warning me..

Mmm i wonder :)

Ah well nothing can bring me down today, iv had some of the best news in my life :D

[Laika]

Probably because I'm the mod for this forum? ;) For someone who's just gotten some brilliant news, you sure are acting a tad grumpy. Congrats on the news, whatever it is.

Now let's carry on this semi-informed debate :)

[WeLsh_bEn]

Probably because I'm the mod for this forum? ;) For someone who's just gotten some brilliant news, you sure are acting a tad grumpy. Congrats on the news, whatever it is.

Now let's carry on this semi-informed debate :)

Are you, ok?

Im not grumpy im just hyper.. Sorry :)

And the news is iv just got filming for something on TV in the south of france.

Thanks anyway :)

[sameh_93]

So Mary was a virgin and she got pregnant, so not only does she get pregnant while still being a virgin but she then also gives birth to "Gods" son.

[kool_ari]

sorry lads, most of my posts just aren't making it up on this thread for some reason. I dunno if RGL_UK is going to be reading any of this but simplicity should have no part in the conversation, I know you should be educated in both feildds (religion and science) to make an informed decision.

Now to answer many questions
1.) The start of the universe. If there was a creator he would have to at some point been created, no? because a creator could not by your definition come from nothing. So how then could a creaqtor exist pre to the universe, don't you end up with some weird cyclic creation problem? For me it doesn't make a whole lot of sense from something to appear out of no where, but I like to use gravity as a starting point, its the one thing that even science has yet to find but we know it has to have a messenger particle (graviton) I see as labeling anything as "just because a creator made it so" isn't simple because that idea is still complex on itself, however, it does seem like the easy way out of the arguement.

2.) Uniform laws of nature. Like electricity being the same everywhere? or gravity being a constant? If these laws weren't so stable everywhere the universe would rip itself a new one and collapse. However theorised particles unavailible to previous detection (IE Higgs) would make this situation all better. A Higgs feild would evenly spread itself out through space and iunteract with all matte and energy equally. Tests at the LHC later this year will be looking for a particle of significant tiny weight, by smashing protons together at the speed of light. The protons are smashed at such high velocities becasue any resulting collsion would be at extremely high speeds as well. Exotic matter (Mouns & Taus) only exist for mere moments in the eyes of a millisecond, however with general relativity, the faster something moves through space the slower it moves through time, so if the LHC manages to for a Higgs particle into existance long enough to be detected, this would give reason to the uniform laws of nature.

3.) Abiogenesis. a Not so complex way of creating the first "cells". The products of abiogenesis are EXTREMELY simple, however they are able to compete with each other via thermodynamics and mechanical processes. Organic molecules are also found in space and spontaneously connect when exposed to minerals like Gold. This has been experimentally confirmed in labs and the result is RNA. nothing that would code a human but it wouldn't have to. after the first simplistic cells developed the cells that replicate the fastest would be a a natural advantage (natural selection), and start evolving (to replicate faster). millions of years go by and then you have today.

4.) DNA is instructions specific instructions to sustain life, and it is very good at doing this. DNA is useless on its own however its like trying to read something in swahilie without knowing swahilie, modern cells are so complex, and efficient in what they do that even today humans do not know what to make of 98% of the code. Trying to reverse engineer the Human DNA code is like trying to reverse engineer microsoft windows. It looks extremely hard to begin with, after a while however you know that windows vista didn't pop out of no where, it was built on XP, which was build on 2003, which came from 2000, which came from 98, which came from 95, which came from windows 3, until you get down to the first version of windows, that bill gates bought off xerox, who coincidentally developed it from NOTHING, something like a 20 year process though.

With knowledge of how old the universe is from cosmological reasearch the known universe is around 13.7 billion years old, how can you say that life could not have had a simplistic beginning to the complexity of today?

Also I must add that I did start this thread it is not for the purpose of discriminating against others, its more of an educational base, having a creater makes absolutly no sense to me, and I want to know if I'm missing out on some information, so please keep the prejudice to a non-existant level

so that's it then no more rebuttals? everyone is happy with the world being described with natural law?

[Laika]

I appreciate your enthusiasm, Ari, but don't triple post.
-Laika